Wednesday, December 14, 2011

Excessive Secularism As Dangerous As Religious Fundamentalism

The title of this post actually appeared in a news report. The statement is an important one but it will be buried in those corners where reality is usually buried. It is borrowed from Mark Tully, the British journalist who is as much Indian in spirit as any other. It is a statement he made at a launch function for his book ‘Non-stop India’ at Chennai on December 14. Here’s the full quote from The Hindu’s report: “Excessive secularism, which feeds the fire of people who like to present India as a country that does not respect its majority, is just as dangerous as religious fundamentalism, Mr. Tully said”. Why does it take a British journalist to state the obvious? The Indian mainstream media does not even want to touch or discuss this issue at all. More of this later.

Let me first pick on Ms.Cacofonix herself. In her latest article, “Our time starts now”, in the Hindustan Times (December 14), Sagarika Ghose laments the inability of the ruling class to adapt to a fast-changing world. She then asks if Indians are still afraid of change. The ruling class did change, didn’t it? They introduced the concept of secularism, twisted it, misused it, abused it, banked on it – all in the name of change and equality!

In an article concerning the recent FDI drama, Sagarika refers to Kancha Iliah as a Dalitbahujan scholar and quotes him. “Kancha Ilaiah once said that to radically change Indian society and attitudes, the Rig Vedic hymn, the Purusa-sukta, should be publicly re-written. This is the verse that says different castes were born from different body parts of Brahma. According to Ilaiah, only a complete excising of such a hymn would rid India of the evils of birth-based hierarchy”. She quotes him to argue that citizens should junk the past. Well, what exactly does the Rigveda have to do with any of this? Kancha Iliah is free to junk the Vedas and so is Sagarika Ghose. I wonder if Sagarika would endorse the deletion of many so-called hateful verses from the Koran and if that would be acceptable to muslims. This is how our so called secular media discusses modern day Indian society with spurious arguments trashing Hindu scriptures. Iliah’s argument may have been relevant to a discussion of caste system or discrimination but has little relevance to Sagarika’s core issue at hand. This is what Tully refers to as excessive secularism. This is nothing but mindless, unrelated and pointless trashing of scriptures of the Hindu culture even when it does not influence any public policy decisions.

In another post of mine about Shashi Tharoor’s idea of secularism I had mentioned that in India secularism means don’t offend muslims. There is another side to it too. The one that goes all out to please muslims, break or bend all laws and rules applicable to other citizens for the muslims, dole out excessive concessions to muslims for votes. This is what secularism has come to mean: Appease muslims at any and all costs to the nation’s fabric.

Yesterday, December 13, was the 10th anniversary of the attack on the Indian Parliament. The politicians and media are still debating why Afzal Guru, the master-mind of the attack hasn’t been executed in accordance with the SC order. Is the answer so hard to find? Quite simply, the Congress party is unwilling to administer justice to a muslim perpetrator of mass murder. This will not happen anytime soon considering elections to Uttar Pradesh and a few more states are around the corner. Hmmm, that brings elections into focus. That also means another round of excessive secularism. Salman Khurshid has announced plans for a further reservation in Central govt jobs for muslims. This is followed by Rahul Gandhi’s assurance to muslim clerics that Madrasas will be kept out of RTE Act. This is being offered despite the fact that many madrasas are funded by the govt. And the media? They are busy just announcing this as grand election strategies instead of condemning such actions as politics of appeasement, vote-bank and a blot on secularism.

Rahul Gandhi - The Secularist
The consistent propaganda by the Congress, the leftists and the media has reached such levels that unless you are willing to dress up in muslim garb, wear a skull cap or join prayers in their dargahs you are not a confirmed secularist. Celebrity journalists are even past writing about this horrendous crime being committed by politicians by damaging the concept of equality of citizens under a democracy. Reservations as a policy is now half a century old and has produced very little progress among those whom it was intended for. And then media celebs like Sagarika Ghose talk about change and modernisation. People like Kancha Iliah talk about excising the Vedas. Take one look at Rahul Gandhi, a man-child who has nothing intelligent to say or no real programme to offer, but the media hangs on to his every word as if it were gospel. Has the culture of slavery to the dynasty in the media changed? No, not at all. They still crawl when asked to bend. Barkha Dutt frequently asks why muslims are being stereotyped. Haha! Take that for intelligence of a journalist! You sport a beard, sometimes without a moustache, a long flowing Kurta, wear a skull cap – sure, I could mistake you for a Christian priest. Then all the black or white burqas and veils, I could mistake them for Jain women, wouldn’t I? And when such media celebs find time they are busy brokering cabinet berths so when will they find time to talk about appeasement or secularism? That’s where a journalist from outside sees facts for what they are; the dangers of excessive secularism.

It took a Britisher, Richard Attenborough, to make a full length feature film about Gandhi. It took yet another Britisher, this time journalist Mark Tully, to point out the folly of excessive secularism. In the same report by The Hindu I quoted earlier, there is another observation that Tully makes that will be remain buried in a corner where truths are usually buried: “Noting that even at the bitter height of Partition, India did not slip into becoming a Hindu nation, Mr. Tully said Hinduism in fact had a lot to do with India's pluralism”.


  1. If these MSM guys ever criticize any scripture of Koran; they would be moving with RPG protection the very next moment! After all "baal bachche bhi to palne hain "

  2. Dear Ravinar,

    Thanks for been so explicit on this topic of Pseudo secularism. What we see in today’s Indian Media is due to calculative investments made by the Anti-Hindu Investors who have invested in Indian Media even after years & years of its loss making just to humiliate the Hindu society, culture & History. Unfortunately the same forces have continuously used the Congress party since days of Mohandas Gandhi to create a facade of pluralism & Human rights to convert maximum Hindus into their barbaric tribes. Although the Caste based injustice in Hindu society throughout the centuries was at the root of abating this anti-Hindu monster, the British & the Moghuls took full advantage of this internal injustice to spread their agendas in India for last 1 millennium. But what this current alliance of Media, Congress & Muslims did not fathom is the internal strength of Hindu civilization which is based on spirituality & science. Hence we see the Hindu society rebounding now even more stronger from the perils of past 1 millennium. Vande Mataram.

  3. Let's use a corollary: driving on a road at home. One observes the norms of correctness and abides by the rules. That is partly dharma in action. But what do the rest do? Everything, except the right thing! They observe no norms and literally drive you off the road! Being correct, decent, upright does not mean being weak.We Hindus must shape our own society.

  4. I blame the BJP for the antics of today's media. i believe they opened by foreign investments in the media and everyone is now going overboard, probaly to satisfy their employers. Take an example of Malaysia, where media outlets are issued licenses only for a year at a time... any silly propaganda will lead to non-renewal of license upon its expiry. I am not propogating this in India... but until people get tired of reading S Ghose types, we have to put up with this tamasha. I commend people like Ravinar and other bloggers for tearing the masks of paid-media. Lay people like me are being educated by the valiant efforts of these bloggers.

  5. Sadhuvad for daring to speak the truth

  6. Absolute truth.
    I don't believe any one religion is better then another or more right about life, the universe, etc... but we as a nation are really losing the plot.
    And its not just Muslims, we are afraid of offending most minorities and the worst part is that the hard-line Hindus who quote scripture or spout hate based on tradition or the word of the gods, all it does is make things even worse still.
    Hinduism like most others, is a religion and spirituality that has much to offer - but the watered down and mutilated form that is the dominant one today, all of them need to be looked at long and hard for what they are with an honest eye.

  7. I first of all congratulate you for your fearless views. These views are politically incorrect. So, if these views are seen by so-called secularists(that's a misnomer; the real term is SICKularists)they would brand it as communal.

    We got physical freedom from the British. But we never got intellectual freedom. Everytime you have to be politically correct than to speak the truth. But it is truly baffling that almost all the mainstream media carries the same attitude.

    It is shocking to know that most of the mainstream media is funded by outside forces. When one of the main pillars of democracy is in the hands of foreign powers, it is detrimental for the nation in a long run. Most of our media gets funded by either Arab petro-dollars or churches. To put it bluntly: from Muslims or Christians. No wonder they do lobby for their owners. That's why secularism in India has reached to ridiculous levels where people are ready to sacrifice nation's security !

  8. "Noting that even at the bitter height of Partition, India did not slip into becoming a Hindu nation .......”.
    We don't "slip" or revert into Hinduism; it is our dharma and that of this nation. Tully isn't the last word on everything.

  9. seedhi baat no bakwaas! written correctly about how media is twisting the reality.

  10. Thanks for taking the initiative, what you say is very well articulated however none of this will goto mainstream media, it still is important, let me know if you need support on this.

  11. nice post!! showing the concise and incisive reality of DEPRAVED INDIAN MEDIA..
    hold your horses, 'coz there is something more in this article which will instigate you all,
    read about the hostile SONIA's COMMUNAL VIOLENCE BILL...

  12. K.M. Munshi had warned about this trend over fifty years ago:

    "If, however, the misuse of this word 'secularism' continues ... if, every time there is an inter-communal conflict, the majority is blamed regardless of the merits of the question... the springs of traditional tolerance will dry up. While the majority exercises patience and tolerance, the minorities should adjust themselves to the majority. Otherwise the future is uncertain and an explosion cannot be avoided."

  13. Day one of our so called independence, we are ruled by imbecile by birth and mediocre in brought up. All they have learnt is to swindle the nation's opulence with impunity with the assistance of drop outs, rogues, III rated who are more in number in modern politics.

    In those days if a boy is below average, they will suggest to join in military, if average to go for teacher training but good for nothing have become politicians and now law makers since we have eccentric rule that there is no basic education required for governing.

    The first step of such III rated is to be street politicians then village to do piravies in PS and other government offices, kangaru court settlement then contest from village to assembly and parliament within which he would have mastered all the criminal qualifications to keep the common under duress of threat.

    What else you can expect of them than such prodding such circumcised?

  14. सत्य और साहस छिप के कितना भी दिखाया जाय उसका मोल दो कौड़ी का होता है। दिल की बात लिख रहे हो तो छिपे क्यों हो भाई। कौन हो क्या हो अपने प्रोफाइल में साफ-साफ लिखो.....

  15. @Anonymous (Comment in Hindi above)

    Who am I? This is a website. If you weren't so dumb you'd be able to find every single info about me, including my location and contacts.

    And you write as "Anonymous"? LOL!

    Don't demonstrate your ignorance with silly comments!

  16. This is exactly what happened to Swamy@ Harvard.
    Harvard succumbed to religious funda via
    excessive secularism. There is an excellent compo going around relevant to Harvard and Swamy.

    yo boys i am singing song
    Harvard soup song
    Flop justice song
    why this harvardveri harvardveri di harvardveri di
    why this harvardveri harvardveri di harvardveri di
    Swamy correct
    why this harvardveri harvardveri di harvardveri di
    No sacking please
    why this harvardveri harvardveri di harvardveri di

    distance la dollar-u dollar-u
    dollar-u color-green-u white-hair-Eck-u
    Witzel background dirt-u dirt-u
    dirt-u color-u black-u

    why this harvardveri harvardveri di harvardveri di
    why this harvardveri harvardveri di harvardveri di

    white skin-u diane eck-u
    lady-u heart-u black-u
    Witzel eyes-u eyes-u meet-u meet-u
    Harvard future dark

    why this harvardveri harvardveri di harvardveri di
    why this harvardveri harvardveri di harvardveri di

    Sugata notes eduthuko
    apdiye kaila Amartya Senkku koduthuko
    da da dollar da da dollar da da da dollar
    sariya Ayesha ke kudu
    super dismissal order ready
    ready 1 2 3 4

    whaa wat a change over Swamy
    ok Swamy now tune change-u
    kaila dismissal
    only english..
    hand la dismissal
    Harvard la censor
    eyes-u full-aa fear-u
    Harvard life-u
    censor-u come-u
    Harvard reverse gear-u
    Sugata Sugata
    oh you Sugata
    you showed the dismissal-u
    bull-u bull-u servile bull-u
    i want u hear now-u
    god i m dying now-u
    Sugata your white lady is happy how-u

    this song for Harvard soup boys-u
    we dont have choice-u

    why this harvardveri harvardveri di harvardveri di
    why this harvardveri harvardveri di harvardveri di
    why this harvardveri harvardveri di harvardveri di
    why this harvardveri harvardveri di harvardveri di

    Harvard soup song

  17. I assure 100% that this anonymous person is linked with Govt by any means :)

    भाई खुद छिपकर दूसरों को छिपकली कहना आपको शोभा नहीं देता! कृपया अगर कोई गिला शिकवा है तो खुल कर बताइए क्यूँ अपनी भद्द पिटवा रहे हो अदृश्य रह कर और निम्न्कोटी की टिप्पणी कर के?

  18. plagiarised upon forwarding the article
    10:14 AM (9 hours ago)

    to vishanth, G.Mohan, pongovind, Sridhar, vijyakumar, S.Raghunathan, me
    Dear Vaidyanathan,
    Our Constitution too proudly proclaims that ours is a "Secular" country and guarantees the right to practice one's religion while also guaranteeing right to property,etc.,
    But all these appear to remain in paper only. The States of A.P. and TamilNadu have a seperate ministry called "HINDU Religious Endowment Board", which governs the affairs of all the temples it had brought under its control. To put it plainly the offerings of the devout Hindus goes into the state exchequer and goes for expenses other than the temple affairs too. In other words the funds of the Hindus goes for funding the "Haj" pilgrimages etc.,
    My questions (not as a Hindu,but as a secular Indian) are:-

    1. The very title "Hindu" Religious Endowment Board itself appears to be non-secular and theocratic, although its activities are anything but Hinduistic.

    2. Why there are no "Muslim" Religious Endowment Board or 'Christian"Endowment Boards at these government levels?

    3. When the Constitution guarantees our right to practice our religion then why this "Hindu Religious Endowment Board" to control and trample on our rights to freely practice our religion and taking away the contributions made to the temple and using it for other purposes? There are many temples under the board's control lacking and languishing in basic amenities, infrastructure and unable to conduct the poojas as ordained in its shastras, unable to maintain the temples properly, leave alone perform the periodic "kumbabhishekams" even though these temples have contributed immensely to their state's exchequer's, but are unfortunately unable to get its due share for performing the rituals because the authorities controlling the temples have not sanctioned the necessary funds. Is this not running counter to the guaranteed right to practice our religion?

    4) When the Central Government and the State governments are vying with each other in offering to sponsor the Muslim Pilgrims going on "Haj Yatra", why these governments professing to practice "Secularism" not offering any aid to those "Hindu" pilgrims undertaking the "Kailash" or "Manasarovar" yatras or in the similar token why these governments not extending doles to Christian pilgrims vowing to visit "Bethlehem"?

    It is only a thought for pro-active discussions before any remedial measures are finally ushered in to bring in the real "Secularism" in all its meaningful spirit.
    Wishfully Thinking and
    With warm Regards,

  19. 0. As there is no moderate Islam, there is only Islam; and Islam itself is bad.

    1. Similarly, there is no such thing as Excessive Secularism, there is only secularism; and Secularism itself is bad.

    2. We need to be a confident people who state with self assurance that we have been Hindus for ages and we want our country to be Hindu Country (Sanatana Bharat + Sanatana Dharma). Period.

  20. Purusha Sukta mentions that all the four varnas emanate from the Purusha. It boldly also says, Adharma (as the back of Viraat Purusha) is also contained in the Purusha. Coming to varnas, the emphasis on the oneness of the source of varnas rather than "inherent superiority or inferiority" amongst various constituents. This does not mean that all people are same. Those who think that all are equal at birth and only nurture/environment causes them to be different later in life are deluding themselves or are Kancha Ilaiah like hypocrites. This does not mean that Varna necessarily is decided at birth once and for all. In Puranas, there have been jivas who have changed their species (jati), gender (linga e.g. Shikhandi), varna (Vishwamitra) during their life times. Jabala (a son of a prostitute) became as Rishi. Thus Varna is a deep and complex issue and genuine scholars who have genuine regards for Sanatana Dharma need to do expound on that.

    Injustices of the past must not be glossed over, much less denied. However, their magnitude and the causes must be keenly and closely examined and analyzed. The Varna dynamics was completely different from the anti-Hindu pogroms by Islam and Christianity. History needs to be studied well on this. History written by Jawaharian stooges like Romila Thapar and her illegitimate intellectual progeny is not to be trusted, let alone be taken seriously.

  21. Kancha Ilaiah is a frustrated bigot. It is not Rig Veda that needs to be excised. It is Kancha Ilaiah, who is rather betraying the fact that he has been circumcised. He needs to regain his head figuratively as well as otherwise to be able to make any seminal contribution to any debate or elsewhere.

    We (the group) recently watched a debate on tv in which this dick(less)head participated (some young India something) and notwithstanding the buffoonery of ex-IIT director PV Indiresan, what we felt about Kancha was that this man does not only not deserve any respect, he forfeits any minimal sympathy that he may have been worthy of. Except, of course, from those who are bigottedly anti-Hindu, Secular, Socialist and so on.

  22. The most "Clear & Present Danger" of this Anti Hindu Monster is going to be witnessed in our Borders along the Assam & Paschim Bengal. These two states already have about 30% Muslim population & a long border with Islamic state of Bangladesh(Thanks to our Iron lady Indira Nehru-Khan). Its not too far that these states have 50% Muslim population & Hindus become minority. I strongly believe their could be a another repetition of Horrors of Bengal Partition by 2040. How Hindus ready themselves for that day in next 25 years is to be seen.

    1. Absolutely Right Abhijeet!! I'm staying in this region since birth and have'nt felt anything better. Finally, for any terror attack, we read that transit was made from eastern India. Specially Kolkata, Asansol etc and recently Bihar.

  23. Unfortunately no important members of self-proclaimed "Hindutva" parties are warning Hindus about the clear-and-present (And something that has been clear-and-present for past 1400 years!) danger of Islam.

    The other day, pro-Hindu debaters were blaming Pakistan for terrorism and secessionist activities in Kashmir. These dumb-fucks think that the root problem is Pakistan. They conveniently forget that the root problem of the root problem was Islam! But how can true, false or pseudo Secularists can be convinced?

    This is why we maintain that it is not excessive Secularism or pseudo-Secularism which are problems. The problem is Secularism itself.

    We Hindus must quickly realize this and choose, elect and support leaders who can think, talk and act unabashedly, unapologetically, in the interests of Sanatana Dharma.

    As we often jokingly say: All are Welcome except those who do not believe in 'All are Welcome'; and remember that Semitic Religions DO NOT believe in "All are Welcome"!

  24. Your site is truly secular. I saw advertisement for marraige of Muslims here lol. Nice post though, once again. You are doing a fantastic job of exposing the murks in our society. I have become a regular to your page. Kudos again.

  25. Thank you sir for this wonderful article. If there was any justice in the world, and if leftist-socialist-retards did not control our country and our media, people like you would be nationally famous, writing for big newspapers and magazines, appearing on national tv.

  26. To all,

    Kanch Illiah is a indeed a misguided fool and a bigot . But what we can do is we shoudn't make him to misguide others. He raised a question regarding casteism in purush sukta of Rgveda. We shouldn't be doing what the jehadis do when they run out of arguments, to start finding faults in others. I am posting here some excerpts from an article, author had don a tremendous job in explaining the purush sukta.

    Please visit this link

    Some excerpts

    "The mantra means that any ecosystem necessarily consists of 4 Varnas or properties or qualities or components – Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra. Brahmin means intellect and knowledge. Kshatriya means strength and valor. Vaishya means management, balance and stability. Shudra means rest of the qualities including ignorance. A smart system would utilize the 4 components in most optimized manner."

  27. When Barkha Dutt refers to sterotyping of Muslims, she isn't referring to their attire. She is rather referring to the fact that for a lot of people in India, and this includes authority figures, being Muslim automatically equals being terrorist.

  28. And there are idiots in the grab of Ministers who want to curtail the little freedom that we have through this internet medium. Even to ddownsize this, the big corporates and the press owned and patronized by them are playing their part to fully cencor the Internet Medium.

  29. Purusha Sutra of Rig Veda does not say different castes came out of different parts of the Brahman, but different castes are different parts of the body of the Brahman. It makes a complete different meaning. Sudras are the feets of the Brahman; thus Brahman cannot even stand up without the Sudras. That is the importance of the Sudras.

    That was the reason Swami Vivekananda said, this is the age of the Vaishas, the Capitalism. However, the next age will belong to the Sudras, or the workers will rule the earth in Socialism. Vivekananda himself, along with Sri Aurobindo, was a Sudra.

    Kaccha Liah is not a scholar; otherwise he could noy make such a mistake.

  30. Secularism means separation of the Government from Religion. It means every decisions must be Rational, irrespective of religious, moral, ethnic, racial or social consideration.

    Thus, India is not a Secular country, because according to Secularism, in 1947 every Mussalmans would be asked to leave India as they have a separate country Pakistan.

  31. Hi,

    As his post is very old, I think I may not be allowed to post a comment, however let me try. The Purusha Suktha surely says that the Brahmana is the head / face of the Virat Purusha and the Shudra is the feet. I would like to offer two perspectives of this representation.

    (1) Here, the Virat Purusha is the figurative representation of the world / society. Can you imagine a healthy person but without feet? A person stands on his feet, so does a society "stand" on the labour of its "working-class". If everyone in the society were merely theorizing and preaching, then who will do the day-to-day menial tasks that keep the society running? In this sense, a society without the labour / working class will be like a lame person. So, this verse is actually not de-grading the worker class (implied to be the Shudras) but it actually glorifies the importance of this class. Just like every part of the body is equally important for the health of a person, every section of the society is equally important for the health of the society.

    (2) The entire Varna or caste system is based on Manu Smrithi and if one reads the Manu Smrithi from end to end, one can see that NOWHERE is it mentioned in Manu Smrithi that the Varna of a person is determined by birth alone. A close reading of the Manu Smrithi will tell the reader that this is more of a manual on how society is structured and regulated - in terms of the roles and responsibilities of the different sections of the society and how each section deals with the members of the same as well as other sections. It is of course a sad fact that these "nominative" texts have been perverted into a "prescriptive" text by certain vested interests and a hereditary character has been given to the caste / varna system.

    It is not Purusha Suktham or Manu Smrithi that needs to be excised but the false interpretations given to these texts that need to be corrected. And also bring these correct interpretations into practice.


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